@josef.lapka 

I could not find Niki and Zdenek ‍♀️

Hi Mariusz, wir haben das selbe Problem und haben dadurch massive Probleme mit Kunden, die zurecht die Rechnungen ablehnen. Wir brauchen hier dringend eine Lösung.

@Jasmin H. 

@Mariusz Siwkowski  Hallo Mariusz, vielen Dank für die Initiative.

@josef.lapka that’s a really big issue - because many customers complain about the invoices.
In addition, we have received information from our tax office that this invoices are not compatible with German tax law.

Hi @c.rex I have added @josef.lapka in this conversation. 

He is product manager of MEWS trying to help us with this topic.

Therefore it would be helpful writing in English - thank you

What kind of hotel do you work for?

What kind of invoices are you facing this kind of problems? (in our case invoices for large events)

What would you like to see / what solution Do you suggest?

Thank you for you feedback

Best

Mariusz

Gladly also in English: The problem regarding the wrong taxes affects almost every event invoice and has been described and explained by us (and many others) sufficiently and in countless emails, examples, support requests, etc. I think it's really great that you @Mariusz Siwkowski got the problem placed at MEWS (thank you very much for that), but (I don't want to appear unfriendly), I don't feel like explaining the problem for the 100th time. We have outstanding invoices in the 6-digit range, which result from these extensively explained incorrect calculations in the cent range and which are increasingly presenting us with liquidity problems that threaten our very existence.
I hope that MEWS will finally get this problem under control.

Once again very clearly: Thank you Mariusz!

Hi @c.rex I totally understand you feelings and pain. 

I was in a meeting today with MEWS and I can promise that there will be a change soon.

To ensure that we match all problems within once we just want to collect more feedbacks.

And recommendations how a good solution would look like.

Our actual wish is:

• do not show the net prices per line
• do not show the tax rate per line - only mark 0% tax prices with a small (1) and 7% with a small (2) and 19% with a small (3)
• below the tax incl. total show a splitting per tax. This must be correct
• p.a.  net total 100,00 € // tax 19% (19,00 €) // tax incl. total 119,00 €

How do you think about this?

Best

Mariusz

We also have this issue in Spain and it is causing major issues with the tax agency. Agree with c.rex that issues surrounding finances should not have such a delay in fixing, this is critical. 

Hi @Sam ,

thank you for your feedback.

I totally agree.

We are facing similar issues and that´s why I am pushing this so much.

What kind of hotel do you work for?

What kind of invoices are you facing this kind of problems? (in our case invoices for large events)

What would you like to see / what solution Do you suggest?

Is there anything specific in Spanish law in regard this topic?

Thank you for sharing.

Best

Mariusz

Hier auch massive Probleme damit, schon mehrfach versucht diese bezüglich mit MEWS zu sprechen aber es passiert gefühlt nichts. 

Hi @c.scholl ,

thank you for your feedback. 

As mentioned I am trying to push MEWS to find a solution and we are very close to a solution.

@josef.lapka from MEWS is in this conversation as well - therefore all in english.

What kind of hotel do you work for?

What kind of invoices are you facing this kind of problems? (in our case invoices for large events)

What would you like to see / what solution Do you suggest?

Thank you in advance

Best

Mariusz

Hello @Mariusz Siwkowski  and @josef.lapka,

first of all I want to thank you for bringing attention to this topic. We already adressed this problem on the 20th of january 2022, but apparently it was more important to update the icon design (had to say it, sorry).

I agree with you all that the invoices need to be fixed but this will only solve a part of the problem. This problem originates with how accounting is setup in the system by MEWS - as confirmed from their side. E.g. you face the same problem with the city tax report in Vienna where you do not pay a fixed amount but a percentage on the lodging price. Happy to provide more details in a meeting incase it is needed. So whenever you have a lot of percentages calculated and then added together you will face this problem.

From what I remember from last year, there is a rather simple fix which can be applied by hotels themself. In the accounting config you have a tax precision of 2, when turning it up to 7 or 8 you will get precise numbers which are added together and basically eliminating rounding differences. The negative side will be that those digits are shown across the whole system. Again happy to provide an example as we accidently set it to 9 in one of our properties in the beginning.

What we suggested:

Showing a tax precision of 2 but using a precision of 7-9 (4-5 will probably also do the job) in the background when calculating percentages and adding them together on the total. This adaption shouldnt be to hard to implement as you only have to limit the digits shown and you obviously have the correct numbers in the background already since you can turn up tax precision to atleast 9.

Happy to elaborate and show the information we collected in a meeting.

Greetings,

Eric

Thank you all so much for your input, and please feel free to write in German as well to give us more insights - our teams can always use Google Translate

First of all, we’re planning to fix this as a priority in this quarter. If that will be possible is a question of all of the different areas that we would need to change in Mews. Our proposal for now as the first step is to fix the invoices, however not concentrate on reporting just yet, because doing everything at once will take too much time because we’re undoing some product and design decisions from when Mews first started. 

So the main question is: Would it already help you if we fix the invoices only but revenue and financial reports may continue to have the same logic?

We think that if it’s invoices only, we can fix it this quarter. 

Second question is: Would this proposed solution work for you?

• do not show the net prices per line
• do not show the tax rate per line - only mark 0% tax prices with a small (1) and 7% with a small (2) and 19% with a small (3)
• below the tax incl. total show a splitting per tax. This must be correct
• p.a.  net total 100,00 € // tax 19% (19,00 €) // tax incl. total 119,00 €

Thank you again for being involved in this subject. Looking forward to hearing the answer to the first question  

Hello @josef.lapka,

keeping it short and simple: Yes to both questions.

Greetings,

Eric

Yes I agree as well this would already help.  

Hi everyone,

Thank you again for your contribution to helping us resolve this issue.

We thought it best to visualise our potential approach in the form of a mock invoice, so I'm pleased to share with you some early progress we have made with regards to the rounding and splitting of tax, and how this then could be displayed on the invoice itself.

Summary of changes

1. Removed individual NET calculations for each line item

2. Removed individual tax calculations for each line item

3. Retained tax splitting in the summary

Please feel free to like, or comment below. We will then look to progress with this and implement it as a solution.

Thanks 

Tom

@tom.horner thank you very much. Can you please provide an invoice with larger amounts and more products at the invoice as the issue usual has been seen when more items on it and larger prices.

Thank you in advance.

Best

Mariusz

@Mariusz Siwkowski thank you so much for the quick reply. Actually you can see the difference already in this example. According to the discussions we had, the difference is already happening at 10 bill items where the accountant would already see a 3 cents difference in the total. 

However, here we will always present the same total payable. Even through when I do the reverse calculation per line, the Net value would be around 80 cents different which would result in around 6 cents difference in the total in the end if this change was not applied. 

The issue has been that the invoice total does not fit, which in this case it does. And the taxation breakdowns are also sound.

Hi everyone,

Thank you again for your contribution to helping us resolve this issue.

We thought it best to visualise our potential approach in the form of a mock invoice, so I'm pleased to share with you some early progress we have made with regards to the rounding and splitting of tax, and how this then could be displayed on the invoice itself.

Summary of changes

1. Removed individual NET calculations for each line item

2. Removed individual tax calculations for each line item

3. Retained tax splitting in the summary

Please feel free to like, or comment below. We will then look to progress with this and implement it as a solution.

Thanks 

Tom

 

 

Dear Tom, thanks for your reply. 
in order to fix our problem in Spain it would be very helpful not to calculate VAT on each line on the bill. 
 

Summary of changes

1. Removed individual NET calculations for each line item -  YES

2. Removed individual tax calculations for each line item - YES 

3. Retained tax splitting in the summary - it's mandatory in every country in EU to show the tax break down. 

Sounds like this is getting tackled now, makes me happy to hear. 

Thanks for keeping us posted. 

Claudia

Hi @josef.lapka 

Time is running and we still have enormous trouble with our customers almost every day. Can you estimate when the problem will finally be solved?

Thank you for your efforts

Hi @josef.lapka 

Not sure it helps, but at least in Germany (and probably many other countries), there are two accepted methods to calculate VAT on invoices:

1) Horizontale Methode: Calculate the tax on every single line and round it per line. Then make the sum of all amounts.
2) Vertikale Methode: First sum all positions with a certain tax percentage, then calculate the tax on this sum.

Depending on which method you use, there can be differences in the tax sum which are in my experience and from all I have read (and I am NOT a tax advisor) accepted by the Finanzamt.

In hotels, normally the “Horizontale Methode” is used, as lines can span across multiple months, and tax should then be correctly calculated by month (which becomes a challenge if you first sum the lines across months).

I am not sure that hiding the single line VAT items is the right way to go, especially not if in the background, all registering and reporting is still done by single line (which in my opinion is correct). Also good to check how VAT line items are transmitted to the Registrierkasse, as it is absolutely mandatory that what you transmit to the Registrierkasse matches what you show on the invoice.

Personally, I think the proper way to go is to apply no rounding precision when registering tax (customers can configure this), but then round the tax when displaying it on the single items on the invoice. For the total then calculate the sum of all non-rounded lines and round it there as well.

In this case, the sum of the single line VAT items might not correspond to the sum of the total VAT items shown, but which can be explained to customers.

 

Hallo zusammen, es kommt Bewegung in das Thema, MEWS hat eine Lösung fertig für BETA und wir testen diese ab morgen. Sieht erstmal praktikabel aus. 

Ist noch jemand in die neue Lösung involviert? 

Good afternoon everyone,

As @c.rex mentioned above, we are now testing our proposed solution. 

If you’d like to be a BETA tester, either:

• post a comment in this thread and @mention me (please refrain from adding your email address - I will find your details from our records) 
• or direct message me - email addresses are safe there .

It’s a very quick process, and will not impact any bills that are already open.

To recap, here’s what the solution looks like:

• We’ve removed the VAT/NET from each line item.
• We still display the VAT rate, and the Gross amount per line item.
• NET/VAT is calculated, per vat rate, in the summary section at the bottom of the invoice.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon!

Many thanks,

Anita.

@Mick  @Eric Kröll  @Emmi @c.scholl @Mariusz Siwkowski @marc agilotel @ClaudiaM. @Sam 

We haven't noticed any problems since the changeover. In this respect, from our point of view / experience, you do not need to be "afraid" of a BETA test. So a clear recommendation to switch quickly!

@Anita Cairns 

We would like to participate in the beta test with all 15 properties. Can you guys give me a quick mail/call once it is activated.

Greetings,
Eric